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Cynolove693

Social Anxiety and Zoophilia

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Cynolove693    155

I've thought about this for a while and I'm wondering if social anxiety is why I turned out to be zoosexual; I've always had issues connecting with people; (that may also stem from Autism), whereas I have no problem at all connecting with animals, no anxiety, no fear of being let down or judged; that fear I'm talking about is crippling, it keeps me from developing even the simplest relationship with people..

Then on the other hand me being a zoophile may be the cause of my anxiety in the first place; we live in a world were if your different your shunned for it..

It wasn't a choice of mine to be a zoophile, it's who I am, who I've always been, what bothers me the most is the fact that I'm not even allowed to be myself, basically what all these laws against us entitle is people like myself that are exclusively zoosexual are supposed to live a life alone, without the opportunity to love because our love is illegal..

I don't have the means to be different, I'm not wired to people that way; I know I've said it many times, it's because it's a truth everyone will question..

I've heard people say why take the hard route, why not just be normal, what they don't realize is I never really had the choice to be, I tried that route, and it did more harm than good to me..

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30-30    21

"...no fear of being let down or judged..." is more often than not the only "reason" to "become" a "zoo" for many. But for me, this is similar to becoming gay because you hate of feel uncomfortable with women (or a lesbian if you hate/feel uncomfortable with men). In my opinion, animals are often used as easy to manage and non demanding fallbacks by people who have trust issues, psychological/mental issues etc.

 One fairly prominent example of this special form of "zoophilia" is George Willard a.k.a. Mark Matthews a.k.a. "The horseman". In his book, Willard offers us insight into the mind of a very obvious misogynic man that keeps a pony in his garage so he can get his rocks off whenever his wife isn´t in the mood...Willard also included this "animals don´t judge you and are easier to deal with" phrase in his book and anyone who endured reading through this bullshit bible will quite effortlessly draw the same conclusions as I did back then when the book came out...during reading, my feelings of "This guy isn´t even close to what it means to be a zoophile" exponentially increased.

I never experienced similar thoughts, I never expected a relationship to be solely for my needs as Willard and all the "substitute zoos" obviously do. Relationships are an investment of feelings, expectations and emotions...but like in every other investment, you can "lose the bet". It is exactly this "angst" of being hurt that drives these individuals towards "zoophilia" . Lack of control, having to deal with another person with different needs and ideas, dissent, having to give rather that take, having to abstain from some things...all of that are pretty idiotic "reasons" to turn towards animals. The "love" these people feel is basically self love. Real love hurts...and it always carries the potential to get hurt emotionally.

 When I was young, just realising my sexual orientation when I was 15/16, I martyred myself with this question. I kept questioning myself whether my orientation is a result of enormous sympathy for horses or the result of antipathy for women/humans/society/whatever or fear of getting emotionally hurt in a relationship. Today, I still cannot answer this question fully, but I found out I don´t have issues with women and I don´t fear the downsides of a relationship. It isn´t that what keeps me from women, it´s just that I am not at all interested in mating with a female human. I can have friendships with women, some of them even very deep ones, but when it comes to the "highest level" of friendship where sexuality is a vital part of it, I´m just not interested. It just feels wrong to me. And btw, the notion that relationships with animals are unproblematic is so blatantly wrong in itself and is only sustained by the vast ignorance many "zoos" sport in regards of animal behaviour. It surely is easier to turn a blind eye to the needs and personality of an animal, especially when these animals are the most domesticated ones mankind has produced.

It basically all boils down to that simple question: Are you really interested in your animal or are you just interested in what this animal can provide you with? How much are you willing to give for your animal? And how much of that would be left if your animal would deny you any sex from now on? Each and every zoophile has to do some introspection in himself to answer these questions..that is, if he really wants to find out whether he really is a zoo or not. Ending up in "zoophilia" only because you flee proper human relationships that demand you to give in to your human partner in some extend is NOT zoophilia. This is egotism and choosing the path with the least resistance to get laid, none more and none less.

 

"...I´m not allowed to be myself..." No, just no. What you aren´t allowed is to have sex with an animal. And what you "aren´t allowed" either is openly promoting your sex life in public. You still can learn to remain silent about your PRIVATE life and no one will ever care about what you do when you´re home alone with your animal. If the animal does not show any behavioural changes or injuries, chances are pretty high no one will give a shit about you being a practicing zoophile in your entire life.

"Silentium aurum est"...silence is golden. This proverb maybe is the most fitting for zoophiles and basically every conflict we zoos have with society is based on a violation of this fundamental proverb´s advice. May I remind you that there was a time BEFORE the Enumclaw incident when nobody, not even the authorities cared too much about people fucking animals? Only the worst idiots were caught, those who seem to be incapable even spelling "self protection" and "reasonable and moderate behaviour"...I can only stress how much of the current hostile situation we found ourselves in has been our own fault by failing to self moderate us and our entire scene. Society isn´t as bad as we like to portray it, isn´t sporting an "inherited hate" for zoophiles...much of the hostility we face today was well earned by all the sick and distorted stuff that made it into the headlines and is currently displayed by animal pornography.  We zoos never managed to disconnect from the fetishists and perverts and so we´re thrown into the same drawer with them...and if someone like me appears to voice out how inefficient and moronic , how onesided and egotistical our ideas, expectations and demands are, he´s branded a looney, a hater or a "Nestbeschmutzer" (defiler of the nest) instead. Criticism isn´t appreciated in our circles, the trenches have been dug deep on both sides of the frontline, the "us versus them" mentality has prevailed...and also brought us to this exact point in history, with worldwide bans of "zoophilia".

I can only report what I´ve experienced in more than 22 years of living with my Hannover mare in several public boarding stables..people aren´t as hostile as it often is said in our community. People knew or at least suspected that my mare and me were a genuine couple everywhere we were. But I never had to go through a witchhunt or experienced direct opposition. No one threw me under the bus for my sexuality. But I kept it out of their sight, I have to add. I am very much aware of how traumatising it can be for Joe Average to discover that this guy over there sleeps with his mare..I always thought that tolerance has to be mutual to work out. As much as I wanted to be tolerated (not to be mistaken for what most people think it means..."tolerare" is Latin for "to endure something you aren´t content with" rather than "I expect a pat on the shoulder for being an animal fucker"), I also understood that I had to be tolerant in regards of NOT forcefully confronting "normal" people with my sexuality. My life in these boarding stables was some kind of a mutual agreement of silence..."If you keep your weird stuff to yourself and moderate, we won´t talk about it". 

So, my advice for you would be: Keep your sexuality to yourself. No one needs to know what you´re doing in your bedroom as long as it isn´t negatively influencing your animal. Have some respect for society that still recovers from the LGBT movement´s changes brought into society. You can only bend structures in a certain amount before they break..and much of the backlash, the antis , the laws and everything stems from denying this simple fact. You cannot teach by word, you have to teach by example. Just be a moderate, mentally stable, reasonable, responsible and caring genuine zoophile, that absolutely suffices to influence society. Quit the drama queen bs and live your life the best way possible instead of constantly complaining about "unjust society"...and even if you don´t leave a mark, you at least have lived a pleasant life with your animal. That´s what counts in the end. Don´t complain, live. Your time is limited and so is the time of your animal. Are you really gonna waste it in fighting for a lost cause ("zoophile rights") that will mostly benefit those among us who will inevitably abuse these "rights" to make a happy buck with animals (animal porn), those who are just in it for quick and easy access to "horse cunts" and "dog dicks"? Seen in the light of objectivity, all these laws against "zoophilia" affect the real zoos the least and the most despicable ones the most. And if just one animal is spared from a "zoo" asshole blatantly abusing it by the "unjust" laws, I´m absolutely willing and prepared to live with the increased danger for my mares and myself. Zoophilia should always put the animals first, even if that means remaining calm when laws against "zoophilia" are installed worldwide. If every zoo would finally learn to stand by themselves and what they are without that stupid drama and the urge to tell the world that they like to fuck with animals, we´d be several steps ahead. You have to justify your deeds solely for yourself, so let´s stop this fishing for assurement once and for all. True love will prevail.And until that happens, keep yourself and your animal safe at all costs, even if this means to be condemned to a life of silence. In the end, this is the most benefitting choice, compared to the fuss all these "zoo rights activists" have made in the past...massively contributing to the current situation. Silentium aurum est. 

 

 

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zootrashcan    11

I have some thoughts about this because I have noticed a good percentage of zoos who are on the spectrum, myself included. At least from what I've seen, it seems to be a higher percent than the general population. I think there are a few possibilities.

First is that there is something about autistic people that predisposes them to zoophilia. Many people with autism have social anxiety and many connect more to/are more interested in animals than people. It doesn't seem like a big stretch for that to carry into sexual feelings once they develop, which is personally what it seems like happened with me.

Secondly I've noticed autistic people seem to be more likely than the general population to be lgbt, kinky, or otherwise be open about alternative sexual identities and sexual practices. There are a few places this might stem from including a lack of connection to or apathy towards social norms leading to more openness towards exploring and embracing alternative sexual identities.

Lastly are the attempts to explain why there might not actually be a link. It's possible that the platforms people tend to discuss zoophilia on are especially appealing to people with autism and/or social anxiety. It's also possible that autistic zoophiles are more likely to be open about it/seek out social interaction based upon it than non-autistic zoophiles. It's also possible autistic zoophiles are less likely to suppress their feelings and more likely to form an identity around them.

Personally I think there is a link. I know that's a statement that'll be unpopular in both autism and zoophile circles, but whatever. 

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Cynolove693    155

To answer your questions 30-30 yes I am interested in my animal, hes my best friend, I would give the food of my plate and go hungry if it came down to it, we may no be in love but our relationship is just beginning.. as for sex hes tried and I've turned it down, for a couple reasons, so ya nothing will change if we dont have sex as my feelings for him are more profound than that..

Jeez I say one darn thing and it deserves a 12 paragraph of a rant àbout fallbacks, the law and questioning wether I'm a true zoo or not??? :P

Not trying to be rude but you seem to be harboring alot of irritation or something lol

Edited by Cynolove693
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Cynolove693    155

Anyways... None of us are perfect, if you think so it's just your ego telling you that, I'm so tired of this "true" zoo idealism that's going around.. we all have our failures and drawbacks; we've all had sex out of just lust at one point or another.., if someone decides that they would rather be with animals over Humans I see nothing wrong with that decision, but some of us didn't make the choice it was made for us with how we are wired..

For as long as I can remember I've found I'm drawn to animals over people, it's something that is just a part of me, has always been; it may be controversial but I believe I was born with this orientation

Edited by Cynolove693
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caikgoch    34

Yeh, sometimes it really is simple.     My final convincer was being in bed, balls deep in a woman, and I couldn't cum unless I closed my eyes and imagined she was an animal.

@ 30-30, How do Spink and Pepe fit into this grand plan of yours?

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30-30    21

Who says that my text was dealing with your personal situation and not a general statement? Are you really so self absorbed that you identify everything as a direct attack towards you? 

I brought up all of this because of certain reasons, such as the former chairman of ZETA, Michael Kiok, has publicly said he hates humans and his "zoophilia" or whatever he calls his twisted sexuality is foremost based on his despise of humans. When this is the predominant "reason" to turn towards animals, it´s not exactly hard to see some elemental mental problems in so called "zoos".  But anyway, you won´t listen to anyone who´s not spewing your filter bubble´s dogma, as it seems. 

On the autism thing, I am rather divided. I do see why someone with autism can end up with an animal as their partner, but I also assume this diagnosis is (ab-)used by many because it serves pretty well as an "impenetrable shield". I also wonder what exactly bringing up autism will prove here...except that "zoophilia" indeed is a symtom of a mental illness and therefor equals mental illness. More ammunition for our opponents, huh?

I still stand by what I wrote in my "lengthy reply" and am absolutely not sorry about your inconvenience having to read something that exceeds Twitteresque format. If reading through some paragraphs stresses you out that much, I really hope you have more patience with your animal.

 

 

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zootrashcan    11
Just now, 30-30 said:

On the autism thing, I am rather divided. I do see why someone with autism can end up with an animal as their partner, but I also assume this diagnosis is (ab-)used by many because it serves pretty well as an "impenetrable shield". I also wonder what exactly bringing up autism will prove here...except that "zoophilia" indeed is a symtom of a mental illness and therefor equals mental illness. More ammunition for our opponents, huh?

Autism isn't a mental illness fyi. Bringing it up doesn't need to 'prove' anything. Not everything is about performative respectability politics. Sometimes people just notice something about themselves and want to know if anyone else has the same experience.

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30-30    21
7 minutes ago, caikgoch said:

Yeh, sometimes it really is simple.     My final convincer was being in bed, balls deep in a woman, and I couldn't cum unless I closed my eyes and imagined she was an animal.

@ 30-30, How do Spink and Pepe fit into this grand plan of yours?

Honestly, that´s the lamest "reason" for being a zoo I´ve ever heard...

How Mr Coke Dealer and his animal porn production fit into my "plan"? And what plan are you talking about? You seem to know more about it than myself...;) 

If there is a "plan", then you can be assured that none of you is part of that plan. I abandoned the idea of "teaching the public" about zoophilia a long time ago and stumbling across Beastforum and its inhabitants only made this decision even more easy for me. The normals are partially right with all their criticism, they´re partially right in accusing "the zoophiles" of being predominantly selfish pricks who only have their own gratification in their twisted minds. The only "plan" worth calling it that would be my proposal of pressing the reset button in our community and sort it all out from scratch anew, according to the changed environment in the age of the internet and full 24/7 access to animal porn.  

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Cynolove693    155
1 minute ago, 30-30 said:

Who says that my text was dealing with your personal situation and not a general statement? Are you really so self absorbed that you identify everything as a direct attack towards you? 

I brought up all of this because of certain reasons, such as the former chairman of ZETA, Michael Kiok, has publicly said he hates humans and his "zoophilia" or whatever he calls his twisted sexuality is foremost based on his despise of humans. When this is the predominant "reason" to turn towards animals, it´s not exactly hard to see some elemental mental problems in so called "zoos".  But anyway, you won´t listen to anyone who´s not spewing your filter bubble´s dogma, as it seems. 

On the autism thing, I am rather divided. I do see why someone with autism can end up with an animal as their partner, but I also assume this diagnosis is (ab-)used by many because it serves pretty well as an "impenetrable shield". I also wonder what exactly bringing up autism will prove here...except that "zoophilia" indeed is a symtom of a mental illness and therefor equals mental illness. More ammunition for our opponents, huh?

I still stand by what I wrote in my "lengthy reply" and am absolutely not sorry about your inconvenience having to read something that exceeds Twitteresque format. If reading through some paragraphs stresses you out that much, I really hope you have more patience with your animal.

 

 

Well sorry I took it the wrong way when you sad all zoos need to ask themselves those questions, in a sense you were referring to me...

Also I'm not trying to prove anything here man, it was just a thought, and it's not like any non zoo even comes to this site so lighten up dude..

Reading through that didn't stress me at all, if anything I'm just dumbfounded by the arrogance in the whole speech, and now you wanna suggest that I have no patience with my animal, you don't even know me, your being rather rude dude

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Hiway    67

Simmer down, people.  Don't give admin a reason to intervene in this thread.

 

Thank you.

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caikgoch    34

First, what I meant is that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."        There's no need to over complicate an issue.

@ 30-30, it's a big question so why don't you start a thread for it:  who was Zoobuster and what influence might he have had on policies and programs of the SPCA and other animal welfare organizations?

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silverwolf1    192

My own feelings on the subject. First, I never had social anxiety toward human interaction before in my life. I have it now, totally unrelated to my sexual preferences, and know what it does to a person. 

I tend to agree that it can be a reason folks, and I mean a LOT of folks, turn to the new popular choice of bestiality. Let's face it, there're a helluva lot more people out there fucking (or more often wishing they could fuck) an animal than there are people who care about the animal(s) they're fucking, or care so much they aren't fucking them at all.

I don't (to be more on topic) agree that your (generalized "your") social anxiety causes or contributes to, or is caused by, your zoophilic beliefs. The days of looking at zoophilia as a disease are gone IMO, as that interpretation has always been wrong. Zoophilia itself is a bad word choice in my opinion because of this classic definition. Zoophilia is sometimes a choice, a belief, a feeling, an emotion. Bestiality is ALWAYS a choice. They have no medical causes, no mental side effects, and what you have is what you brought into it. I've felt this way, and expressed as such, for decades. Just research me a bit and you'll see that unchanged opinion since 1997 and my reasons behind it. I'd iterate them here but for fear of being called "long winded". 

On a side note, and not to derail this topic, I don't and never will get why folks MUST find a cause, an impetus, a reason for their "Zoophilia" other than that it just is. Yet we accept our non-human companions zoophilic tendencies and choices with-out any reason. It's no more 'normal' for them than for us after all.

I know that's not what Cynolove is doing in the original post here, he's just thinking about possibilities, and to his thoughts I say, I doubt it is related at all. I do think it makes it more difficult for you to feel accepted by your peers, and I understand the reasoning behind your belief there might be a connection to your zoophilic beliefs. It may indeed spur your sex with your partner(s), but not your love for them. That comes from somewhere deep inside you that needs no justification.

sw

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silverwolf1    192
2 hours ago, caikgoch said:

 

@ 30-30, it's a big question so why don't you start a thread for it:  who was Zoobuster and what influence might he have had on policies and programs of the SPCA and other animal welfare organizations?

That'd be a great post for the Historical section in my opinion.

sw

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silverwolf1    192
6 hours ago, Hiway said:

Simmer down, people.  Don't give admin a reason to intervene in this thread.

 

Thank you.

To set the record straight folks, I locked ONE topic due to personal insults, one for violation of the Human/ Animal porn rule, and one as possible spam until it was confirmed as such since the beginning of this forum. I've deleted several posts, all human porn spam, and banned 1 user as a spammer. Not a bad record even with a low membership number. The rules here are quite liberal in my opinion as well. 

I've made one stupid threat in my time here as well. We all screw up folks, and I did there. NO-ONE however asked me to review that decision by PM. This is indeed my forum, and my decision as to what is and isn't continued in debate here or when a debate has progressed to circular argument or personal attacks. My decision can always be appealed though, to a point. That's why there is a PM system in my opinion. Like I said, we ALL make mistakes.

Lastly, the only way to not have a topic debated is to not post it, and that in my opinion would be a loss to the forum. Debates should however be kept on topic as much as possible. I've reviewed this thread, as I do ALL threads here, and see no problems with it, though I do see some straying in replies. A good topic, and some interesting answers to it. Please continue...

sw

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Cynolove693    155
On 11/28/2017 at 3:34 AM, zootrashcan said:

Autism isn't a mental illness fyi. Bringing it up doesn't need to 'prove' anything. Not everything is about performative respectability politics. Sometimes people just notice something about themselves and want to know if anyone else has the same experience.

Sadly it's a common misconception that autism is an mental illness, when it's actually a neurodevelopmental disorder; which in layman's terms means that a person with autism has a difference in the way thier brain developed compared to non-autistic people.

Autistism isn't a sickness, some people with autism are actually found to have abnormally high IQs.. however there is social and psychological drawbacks that come with autism, people with autism are different not mentally ill though, I hate hearing people say that autism is an illness and people with it are somehow a lesser being, I've heard it all my life and it's not true..

Edited by Cynolove693
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Cynolove693    155

Back on topic though, it seems to be a rather rare or at least undocumented occurrence for people with autism to be zoophiles although it is common for autistic individuals to have abnormal sexual desires due to lack of social skills, am I saying that all zoophiles are autistic? Obviously not but I do believe people with autism are predisposed to live different lifestyles out of the norm; I've also saw a notable connection between animals and people with autism, I do believe alot of people with autism have a higher chance of becoming zoophiles in teenage years or later in life.. here's the only study I've found online linking an autistic person and zoophilia...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28714321/

Here's scholarly articles about autism and sexual behavior

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-015-0562-4

 

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Petazoo    5

I guess I'm weird in this aspect, I'm a social butterfly. I'm charming, friendly and have no problem in conversation. I do have a mental disorder but it's minor and very manageable. (Depression)

I'm a zoo because I'm sexually and emotionally invested in animals. I could easily get women, I've been married, I've dated plenty but it's not what I want. While people are trying to navel gaze about what it means to be zoo or why they are a zoo, I think the focus should shift to : how to maximize your quality of life as a zoo. 

Some do this by providing information to those coming behind them, some do this with humor while others do this by copious amount of porn. People will judge me and some will hate me but how I maximize it is by providing entertainment catering to zoos. (Saint Francis Series of Stories.)

Too many people worry about the 'why' of being a zoo when they should probably focus on the 'how'. 

Don't worry about what others think, just worry about what you do with who you are.

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silverwolf1    192
55 minutes ago, Petazoo said:

I guess I'm weird in this aspect, I'm a social butterfly. I'm charming, friendly and have no problem in conversation. I do have a mental disorder but it's minor and very manageable. (Depression)

I'm a zoo because I'm sexually and emotionally invested in animals. I could easily get women, I've been married, I've dated plenty but it's not what I want. While people are trying to navel gaze about what it means to be zoo or why they are a zoo, I think the focus should shift to : how to maximize your quality of life as a zoo. 

Some do this by providing information to those coming behind them, some do this with humor while others do this by copious amount of porn. People will judge me and some will hate me but how I maximize it is by providing entertainment catering to zoos. (Saint Francis Series of Stories.)

Too many people worry about the 'why' of being a zoo when they should probably focus on the 'how'. 

Don't worry about what others think, just worry about what you do with who you are.

I too was until recently very comfortable interacting socially, before the PTSD came to a head. Like yourself, I've dated "plenty" as well. I couldn't agree with you more on what's really important, though I'm with-out a mate since Shadows death. I attempt to both entertain and educate in my writings, though I doubt their impact, and in running this forum I hope to provide a platform for others to do the same.

My question for you; Have you ever questioned or doubted your feelings and desires respecting non-humans? I somehow never had before coming online, and only briefly after. Just curious if I'm alone in that.

sw

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silverwolf1    192
2 hours ago, Cynolove693 said:

Back on topic though, it seems to be a rather rare or at least undocumented occurrence for people with autism to be zoophiles although it is common for autistic individuals to have abnormal sexual desires due to lack of social skills, am I saying that all zoophiles are autistic? Obviously not but I do believe people with autism are predisposed to live different lifestyles out of the norm; I've also saw a notable connection between animals and people with autism, I do believe alot of people with autism have a higher chance of becoming zoophiles in teenage years or later in life.. here's the only study I've found online linking an autistic person and zoophilia...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28714321/

Here's scholarly articles about autism and sexual behavior

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-015-0562-4

 

I don't know if there is a connection. I have noticed that it appears to be the norm that zoo's on average have some kind of social aversion, but that may just be that those who have are more vocal than those who have not.

There might be a reason, or many different reasons, we are who we are. I don't know. I've always just figured I was because I was. I've usually seen myself in the minority for this view though. I hope you find the answers you're looking for, if any.

sw

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Petazoo    5
23 minutes ago, silverwolf1 said:

My question for you; Have you ever questioned or doubted your feelings and desires respecting non-humans? I somehow never had before coming online, and only briefly after. Just curious if I'm alone in that.

Of course! I doubted every single step of the way, I didn't get over my doubt till I spoke with many many people about the subject. I spoke with every type of beastialist, Zoophilie, Anti-Zoo and Zoo that I could find to get many different perspectives to help me form my own opinion. I take a very even handed approach to my own feelings of Zoophilia, I know why I, as an individual, am drawn to the aspects of loving a non-human.  The Anti's and some of the Zoo'er than thou folks made me question how I felt about it but I took the time to answer those questions, I am grateful to the people who allowed me to experience the physical aspects of it and the mental aspects. 

The place where this approach benefits me the most is in my writing, I take my own lived experiences, and the taught experience from all walks to bring stories that resonate with zoo's. I don't have animals of my own but that doesn't stop me from known what I am and why I am like this. Many want an outside answers as to why but who were are begins on the inside and is only tilted in directions through outside force. 

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egoldstein    37
Quote

It wasn't a choice of mine to be a zoophile, it's who I am, who I've always been, what bothers me the most is the fact that I'm not even allowed to be myself, basically what all these laws against us entitle is people like myself that are exclusively zoosexual are supposed to live a life alone, without the opportunity to love because our love is illegal

I agree it's quite unfortunate, in most cases I think the laws have very little to do with animal welfare and more about trying to abuse anyone who differs from the norm and gets caught, but that's a whole other topic. :P

No harm, no foul.

 

Quote

I don't have the means to be different, I'm not wired to people that way; I know I've said it many times, it's because it's a truth everyone will question..

I've heard people say why take the hard route, why not just be normal, what they don't realize is I never really had the choice to be, I tried that route, and it did more harm than good to me..

I've heard (and even thought much the same myself, about myself), but it's as easy for me to be a "normal heterosexual male" as it is for a typical heterosexual male to be me. I experimented a lot when I was younger, I know women and men aren't for me; I know because I tried. I can make friends with people, I can care about people as I've got some good friends whom I cherish dearly, but I don't form romantic bonds with humans and never really have. I can and do with some non-humans

I've spent a lot of time over the years thinking about why I am this way and I've not come up with a compelling answer yet.

 

On 11/27/2017 at 9:12 PM, zootrashcan said:

Personally I think there is a link. I know that's a statement that'll be unpopular in both autism and zoophile circles, but whatever. 

Dunno, the sexual dynamics of autistism could make for an interesting research project for someone.

 

Quote

 I abandoned the idea of "teaching the public" about zoophilia a long time ago and stumbling across Beastforum and its inhabitants only made this decision even more easy for me.

 Weren't you just promoting a zoophile registry in another thread? Seems pretty far from abandoning the idea to me.

 

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The normals are partially right with all their criticism, they´re partially right in accusing "the zoophiles" of being predominantly selfish pricks who only have their own gratification in their twisted minds.

 Given the views and opinion you seem to have about zoos, I admit sometimes I worry that much of your "all zoos are abusers" could be projection, I sincerely hope it is not. My sample size isn't especially large, but of the dozen or zoos I've met, most have been good people who take at least as good care of their wards than I see among the pet owning "normal people" I know, typically the care is much greater. Are there some who are as you describe? Of course there are, same as there are abusive husbands or wives; that they exist doesn't mean they're the standard.

 

On 11/28/2017 at 9:00 AM, silverwolf1 said:

I tend to agree that it can be a reason folks, and I mean a LOT of folks, turn to the new popular choice of bestiality. Let's face it, there're a helluva lot more people out there fucking (or more often wishing they could fuck) an animal than there are people who care about the animal(s) they're fucking, or care so much they aren't fucking them at all.

Where's the evidence that it's becoming more popular? More visible, certainly as the internet has done for everything, but all that I've read suggests a slight decrease, primarily attributed to fewer people living in close proximity of domesticated animals. I don't think it comes as a surprise to any of us that in the percent of humans willling to have sex with a non-human, the majority will be motivated by their own desires. I suspect you'd find about the same ratio of self-interest among the general populace in their given sexualities.

 

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I don't (to be more on topic) agree that your (generalized "your") social anxiety causes or contributes to, or is caused by, your zoophilic beliefs. The days of looking at zoophilia as a disease are gone IMO, as that interpretation has always been wrong. Zoophilia itself is a bad word choice in my opinion because of this classic definition. Zoophilia is sometimes a choice, a belief, a feeling, an emotion. Bestiality is ALWAYS a choice. They have no medical causes, no mental side effects, and what you have is what you brought into it. I've felt this way, and expressed as such, for decades. Just research me a bit and you'll see that unchanged opinion since 1997 and my reasons behind it. I'd iterate them here but for fear of being called "long winded". 

I'm dubious of free-will, so choice seems an awkward explanation. I think we get here from different influences and circumstances; I don't disregard a possible genetic link (it's long winded), but I'm open to the possibility. When behavior can be designed, shaped, and molded by external events, can the resulting actions really be called choice?

 

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On a side note, and not to derail this topic, I don't and never will get why folks MUST find a cause, an impetus, a reason for their "Zoophilia" other than that it just is. Yet we accept our non-human companions zoophilic tendencies and choices with-out any reason. It's no more 'normal' for them than for us after all.

I agree with you, the cause is far less mportant, but I admit I do wonder at times. I don't think I'll ever figure out why I am this way, but I do think it's important to examine my motivations and actions.

 

3 hours ago, Petazoo said:

I guess I'm weird in this aspect, I'm a social butterfly. I'm charming, friendly and have no problem in conversation. I do have a mental disorder but it's minor and very manageable. (Depression)

I'm a zoo because I'm sexually and emotionally invested in animals. I could easily get women, I've been married, I've dated plenty but it's not what I want. While people are trying to navel gaze about what it means to be zoo or why they are a zoo, I think the focus should shift to : how to maximize your quality of life as a zoo. 

I don't think you're weird, perhaps the socially awkward are more likely to interact on the internet than the socially adept causing an overrepresentation online?  :P

Very well said.

 

 

Edited by egoldstein

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30-30    21

Pardon me if I still totally fail to see why the question of legality matters so much here. We´re arguing about a law/laws that take(s) more than just some minor slips of attention from the perpetrator. If you keep it all to yourself, probably no one ever will suspect anything. I also never heard about a huge "anti zoophilia police force" trying to siege us besides those sting operations Arpaio´s gangsters have done. Even those guys responsible for the new "anti zoo" laws say it´s hard to prove whether someone actually had sex with an animal; all evidence usually is gone after a few hours and it really takes a whole shitload of bad luck to give this hard evidence..or tremendous amounts of stupidity. 

Almost five years after the installation of "anti zoo" laws in Germany, not a single person has been arrested because of "zoophilia" and arrests in other parts of the world ALWAYS are accompanied by nutjob actions. In the age of cheap IR cameras, fencehopping may not be exactly the best idea...and I´m not even touching the ethical and moral issues with fencehopping here.  Publishing self made animal porn that leads to you being identified? Hell, why does anyone think it is a good idea to publish evidence of a highly reprimanded practice? 

It´s also worth mentioning that many members of the community are quick to mix legal and social stuff here. Even if "zoophilia" isn´t punishable by law, it isn´t a smart idea to be blatantly open about it anyway. And I say this from experience, as a German who was legally "allowed" to sleep with his mare until mid 2013. Even if "zoophilia" was relegalised tomorrow morning everywhere, people´s feelings towards having sex with an animal wouldn´t just magically change overnight and I sincerely doubt they will change in a way many "zoo" are hoping for in centuries. There always will be folks who hate you for what you are and there´s no way to dictate that by legalisation.

So it basically boils down to a rather simple question: are you willing to accept your social status of an outcast and will act accordingly by shutting the hell up, not trying to make "zoophilia" into the "next gay"? And if zoophilia means so much to all those "zoo warriors" out there, why aren´t they just investing their precious energy they waste on running their heads against a massive, impenetrable wall into building a safe environment for themselves and their animal partner? Is it because actually shaping their lives by earning enough money to live on their own is so much harder than this stupid "clicktivism" that just takes a computer and a moron frantically hacking in outlandish claims and demands behind it?

Regarding the autism, I´d say it is quite logical you´ll find more autists (self diagnosed as well as medically diagnosed) in "zoophilia". Sexual energy needs vents, outlets...and if you are suffering from the lack of social skills to connect to other humans, it´s natural you will seek another vent for your energies. I recommend reading Wilhelm Reich´s books and his theories regarding vents, those might shed further light on why there obviously is an above avergae percentage of autists in zoophilia.

Egoldstein, you asked for proof on "zoophilia" becoming more popular. May I direct you to the hookup section of Beastforum? But don´t get buried under the masses who are searching for a chance to delete "sex with an animal" from their "bucket lists". Don´t get buried by all those who "want to try it once" or are desperately searching for a piece of fuck meat. Since "zoophilia" has become a thing in the media after Enumclaw, the influx of "curious" persons has grown rapidly. Like a "new flavour" added in your local ice cream shop lets the lines waiting for it grow. I object to the common notion of all these curious ones just being folks who try to act on their inner desires and claim that many of them never had these desires until they ran across something that incited these desires. Homepages as BF have a huge advertising effect on the easily influenceable, on the fetishistic and adventurous ones, on the ones who have NO orientation, the typical FATW´s (fucks anything that walks). I haven´t visited BF for a while now, but if there really is a decrease on the numbers of folks I described, I´d say it has lots to do with the new laws and the deterrence effect they undoubtedly have for those who aren´t emotionally invested as actual zoophiles. It´s basically like with every subculture...the more popular it gets, the more watered down its ideas, its core values will get. I don´t see how zoophilia/bestiality is different from every other subculture here. Insisting on it seems to be equally moronic as saying that, of ALL sexual perversions/obsessions/tastes, zoophilia is the one and only that hasn´t created any brothel catering to that specific "taste". If there´s a market (and a quick glance into BF´s hookup section will prove there is one...a huge one indeed), there will be people who are trying to make a happy buck out of it, legal or illegal, doesn´t matter.

That´s all I have to add for now...btw: I´m astounded by the complexity and civility of this discussion. Maybe there is some hope left for us...

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caikgoch    34

Why does it matter?        Take a run through http://usanewswires.com/tag/Johnny+Oquendo

The guy is accused of having sex with his stepdaughter, killing her to cover it up, and dumping her body in a river.       Half of the trial is about a witness having visited bestiality websites and having pictures on her phone which she voluntarily turned in so messages from the killer could be recovered.

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egoldstein    37
9 hours ago, 30-30 said:

Pardon me if I still totally fail to see why the question of legality matters so much here. We´re arguing about a law/laws that take(s) more than just some minor slips of attention from the perpetrator. If you keep it all to yourself, probably no one ever will suspect anything.

If someone happens to trespass and observe you, you would stand to lose everything and spend several years in prison for doing something where there is no harm.

If your mare had an accident which required immediate veterinary care, you risk being discovered and again, losing everything and your freedom for....wait for it....doing the right thing and putting your mare's health above all else.

What happens when you discover a lump in your mare's vagina which if dealt with early wouldn't be a problem, but if left until a vet could readily find it would be catastrophic, how do you explain to the vet that it's there without again, risking everything?

Why should society tolerate laws which are discriminatory and unjust? If the intent is to prevent harm, shouldn't the laws focus on actual harm? The priniples which have guided most modern governments state these types of laws shouldn't exist, but yet they persist. Worse still when these laws are pushed as animal welfare laws because in almost every case they don't improve animal welfare in the slightest, but only serve to resurrect old sodomy laws.

 

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Egoldstein, you asked for proof on "zoophilia" becoming more popular. May I direct you to the hookup section of Beastforum?

You think I hadn't considered that? Again, that's evidence that it's more visible, but not evidence that it's on the rise. In 1953 there were absolutely zero "hookup posts" on bestiality sites, does that mean bestiality didn't exist before the internet?  Don't mistake anecdote for evidence.

To make an analogy, I hang out on some machinist forums. I see a lot of people looking for equipment so they too can start making things out of metal. Does that mean machining is on the rise, or that it  might seem that way because of selection bias?

Edited by egoldstein
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